Back in September I wrote a short piece on Augustus Cole “Train” from the Gears of War series, discussing my concern over Cole’s portrayal and the potential negative stereotype he represents. To summarise the piece’s conclusion: he’s almost racist but not.
I’m returning to a similar theme due to my experiences with two recent games that I’ve played and loved, but that had me squirming with their portrayal of the female characters inhabiting their game worlds.
Saints Row: The Third and Dungeon Defenders both got under my skin for this. However, I think one important difference between them was that one game conveyed a fictional world’s attitude towards women whereas the other felt like it conveyed a real individual’s attitude towards women, and this difference swayed me in favour of one over the other.
SR3‘s world is nihilistic. It says much of a world when the most likeable character is a stone-cold monolithic Russian killer. This monster looks like a veritable angel in contrast to the sociopaths, main character included, who inhabit the city of Steelport. That women are objectified and the weakest exploited is par for the course in this dog-eat-dog setting. I think it helps that men don’t get any better of a deal, with males found subjugated to sexual torture or simply at the mercy of the Alphas within their respective groups (again, these Alphas might be men or women). That the writing is generally sharp and self-aware enough to make the ‘strong’ female characters the same bawdy clichés as the ‘strong’ men contributes towards the game denigrating both sexes, leaving you feeling like the gutter treats no one nicely.
Getting into an argument over whether such an environment should exist is not what I wish to write about. With the path of self-parody running dangerously close in parallel to mere ugly ‘Gangsta’ porn it is hard to openly celebrate it, although I made a good stab at it with my review.
SR3 exists and as it is I think Volition managed to be cleverly, anarchically tasteless rather than simply tasteless. I never got the feeling that any of the developers viewed the behaviour of characters within their game as acceptable.
Dungeon Defenders‘ sin is more difficult to reconcile. The game is wide-eyed and colourful, the limited storyline exhibited in animated cartoons evokes Labyrinth and the Raccoons, and the combat has the enemies erupting into mana instead of ichor.
So this pose just makes no sense:
I mean, maybe I’m getting old saying this but Dungeon Defenders feels like a really good kid’s game (though it might be a bit complicated for the under 8s) whereas the Huntress isn’t making a gesture that feels appropriate as a portrayal of a woman, either for a game in such a setting or for any age.
Maybe I am going too far. Maybe most women see this 3D model pose like that and think nothing of it. Maybe there are bigger, Saints Row-sized fish to fry.
For me, though, it felt like this pose was viewed as acceptable behaviour during development: that the only woman in the game is making gestures alluding to her sexual availability and offering no hint of personality. Instead, as usual, the latter is saved for her three male companions who are given visual mannerisms that lend them an actual persona. It is especially sad because everywhere else the Huntress feels pitch perfect.
Would I have been more comfortable if DD had gone the SR3 route and allowed you to dress the Monk up in a purple thong and given him a Cockney accent? Probably not. Instead I am thinking that perhaps the animator responsible for The Huntress should have read Paperbag Princess a few times instead.
The games industry is in a strange place when it comes to this sort of thing; much like the comic book industry, their protagonists aren’t real and therefore can be exploited to fit the (often imagined, sometimes not) demands of the largely male audience and creators.
Things are getting better, albeit very slowly. The more that these issues are discussed amongst men and women alike, the less we will find ourselves falling back on deliciously guilty pleasures like Saints Row: The Third.
Comments
32 responses to “Does this look sexist to you?”
I'm happy Trendy went a different way with the new heroes. Out of the 4 new characters, 3 are women, and all of em dignified. If it,s any consolation, the male ranger is lamost as bad as the female one.
Well that is heartening. I would like to hope that it was an Orson Scott Card moment. Where one individual's opinion/outlook does not reflect that of the rest of the team.
EDIT:
For those that don't know, Orson Scott Card wrote the story line for Shadow Complex, which is basically about a bunch of liberals trying to take over America. Mr. Card's personal politics involve hating gay people a hell of a lot. Gaygamer did a really good piece on Chair talking about how Shadow Complex was great Orson Scott Card is a massive cunt but that the people that the gaygamer writer had talked to had little to do with him and were really sound people
There are other criticisms of Card about as well: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm
Although nothing quite so ethically repugnant as his views on homosexuality.
Read through that stuff, having never read Ender's Game it makes it sound pretty shit. A bit like Twilight for Sci-Fi fans.
Big read but fascinating viewing from an outsider's perspective, makes Card sound like Heinlein.
I enjoyed Ender's Game when I read it as a young teen; ditto a few of Card's other books. I thought Speaker for the Dead (an Ender sequel) was one of the most humanist and moving books I'd read for some time. And it is, in a way, but it is also heavily informed by aspects of Christian philosophy that carry some deeply problematic baggage.
Funnily enough these days I hear Heinlein defended more often than I used to; I think serious critics have gotten their teeth deep into his work (including feminist critics) and that has proved informative. For all of his many, many flaws, particularly around women and militarism (I'm going to play coy and not say "fascism" ther- oops) he was a writer of impressive depth and breadth.
Heinlein is interesting, but I completely disagree with his world view. Reading Starship Troopers is painful as it is so horribly one-sided. None of his arguments or ideas are presented with a believable or interesting counter point. He pretty much goes 'This is my world view if you don't like it then that means that you are a fucking liberal, are wrong and will be begging me to protect you when we inevitably get invaded'
The thing with Heinlein is that his writing career spanned forty years, during which time his opinions on all manner of things changed and evolved, often quite dramatically. And in other things he didn't change much, which was a pro and a con all in one: at the start of his career his female characters were strong, assertive, intelligent etc., all things which one wouldn't find in other 40s or 50s SF. He was still writing similar characters towards the end but by that point their sexual submissiveness and 50s cultural mores were hopelessly outdated.
Starship Troopers is a novel that argues the case for a form of fascism (the context, it should be noted, is perpetual war against an implacable foe), but The Moon is a Harsh Mistress argues the case for a form of anarchism ("rational anarchism" he calls it – essentially it's a form of libertarian socialism or anarcho-syndicalism, as in a non-hierarchical form of social organisation between free individuals).
I think if one were to peg Heinlein as anything it would be a libertarian, as he was obsessed with the idea of individual freedom – this can be seen in the "citizens" of Starship Troopers (who win the only freedom possible in their society through sacrifice for it – not hugely dissimilar to some systems of governance in Greek city-states, as far as I remember my ancient Greek history) and the "loonies" of TMIAHM (the aforementioned anarchos), as well as all over the place in his later, barmier novels (which are all about time travel and parallel dimensions and sex and shit).
Heinlein is a writer who is sometimes distasteful and sometimes inspiring but rarely dull. The man did seem to deal in extremes.
I had a long winded response to this but it vainished when I had to sign in through wordpress that doesn't work properly.
So instead I am going to place this face book page link in here instead (as it was the last thing I copy pasted)
http://www.facebook.com/xbox?sk=app_2621666804984…
Oh yeah, it's really annoying when intensedebate signs you out. I'm tempted to switch over to Disqus but we've been using ID for so long now that I'm worried about breaking something / losing all the comments / annoying people. Maybe I'll set up some kind of poll and solicit other general feedback for the site?
Also, thanks for that link. I always enjoy advertising featuring people who look like they've just eaten eighteen bacon double cheeseburgers.
It definitely looks sexist to me, and in a slightly disturbing way… Good post.
Well that is a start, makes me feel like I am not overreacting to it. I mentioned it in my review of the game as well as it really bothered me. I think the worst part is that this is the first experience most players will have with The Huntress.
I forgot to mention in the reply to oddvorbis but I would really like if they had done a skinj swap for the ranger and as a result had him shaking his butt at the camera as well.
I agree that men should be sexier in games. If I can't be hit on by gay men in real life, then I'd hope games could cater to that.
The thing about games oversexualizing their women is that it's ultimately pointless in a world where Rule 34 of the internet exists. Sure, the implications of said rule have a negative impact on one's faith in humanity, but it's a good enough reason for people that actually produce these characters to dress their characters more appropriately. Has there ever been a serious backlash about a female in a game not being sexy or naked enough? To the point where it would actually affect sales?
Rule 34?
I used to get hit on by Gay men all the time (when you live in the gay capital of England it is an inevitability). Rule of thumb: if you need to be catered for and you can't find a man to do it then you are in the wrong town.
Pretty sure people must have complained about it at some point, there is enough detritous out there that would have the gaul to demand more nakidity. Not that there isn't room for nakidity, and I like it when a person is sexy, doesn't everyone? I just want it to make sense and if it isn't then for it to at least be attached to an interesting character.
Rule 34 is a 4chan thing – basically, if it exists, there is porn of it.
I'm glad he decided against Googling it. Madness that way lies.
Ah, there was a rule like that bouncing around that if it was popular then there would either be porn or a musical based on it. Must have transformed into Rule 34.
EDIT:
Oh and also, some one found our site by searching for the term:
"dungeon defenders huntress porn"
I'm unsure of where exactly I stand with the issue of sexism in video games. Certainly I'm against the negative portrayal of women but I'm unsure where things begin to bother me.
If the animator of the Huntress were a woman would it change anything?
I was thinking that the Huntress animation and how she's dressed irks me a bit but then I remembered Golden Axe and the Amazonian. She doesn't really bother me, so how come the Huntress does?
I think that it was the fact that despite the mechanical sexism (Tyris did less physical damage than the other two) her portrayal was pretty neutral. None of her poses suggested anything other than her being badass at killing shit and her attire next to Ax-Battler (also stripped to the waist) seemed appropriate. Even in the remake 'Beast Rider' she was pretty tough looking rather than 'sexy'.
In contrast, Dungeon Defenders is a much better game but the Huntress… Hmm
"If the animator of the Huntress were a woman would it change anything?"
I would say that it might actually be more disappointing because of the extra mile she'd have travelled to be so thoughtless.
One part of me thinks the same thing, that if the animator was a woman than it would almost make it worse.
Another part of me thinks that if the animator was a woman than perhaps the animation was created as intended for whatever purpose the animator was hoping to achieve.
I don't know, I'm still not sure where I stand.
I was a little bothered by the fact that almost every female character in Rage was wearing very little with the exception of the older women and one or two modestly dressed post apocalyptic survivors. The character models where very well detailed and most characters felt unique but why do all women need to be wearing skirts or have next to no shirt on. I mean there is part of me that doesnt really have a problem with the sexified female NPC, but another part of me that is thinking "You're really going out, in the Post-Apocalypse, dressed like that?"
On the other hand I was thinking almost exactly the opposite while playing games like Mass Effect 1/2. While playing those games, which go so far as to allow the character to chase romantic relationships, I couldn't get over how sexless and sterile the games actually were. It was like all of the risque sexual innuendo was focus grouped out of the game to ensure nothing at all was offensive or over-sexualised. I would have loved for any of the characters to step out of their strict role and to do or say something risque.
"Another part of me thinks that if the animator was a woman than perhaps the animation was created as intended for whatever purpose the animator was hoping to achieve."
I'm quite sure this was the case no matter the sex or gender of the animator. ;)
I agree with you re. Rage. I had a similar thing with Fallout 3 which often had female characters running around wearing bras made out of tin cups and little else. Given that you couldn't walk ten paces in that game without tripping over something made leather or metal, you'd have thought they'd have gone for something with more practicality.
It sounds like a pedantic observation, but it is something that damages the sense of immersion. Firstly because it makes little sense, secondly because it was obviously put in the game to offer some mild, momentary sensation of titillation to a predominantly male audience, so on both levels it's somewhat insulting.
It's funny you mention the Mass Effects. You're correct that they're both bizarrely sterile, but I feel compelled to mention Mass Effect 2's constant gratuitous ass-shots in cutscenes, particularly where Miranda (was that her name? The Cerberus non-entity) was concerned…
I think you're onto something when you mention characters having strict roles. That may be close to the heart of a lot of the problems with videogame writing; that most characters are merely a role given voice and animation. Small wonder, then, that they are so bland and forgettable.
Most awesome browser history ever.
I just managed to get the xbox points for this game so I am going to go and check out the huntress 10 or 20 times to see how offended I get.
Hey Madd!
Are you going to be doing that one handed to make sure the offense rises?
As for the browser history I got it off of Reddit and it was tagged as "10 year old's browser history"
*Reads* *Sigh* *Reads again* *Double sigh*
Okay, so, yeah, good article, valid points, all that.
But the male ranger is also an elf.
He is also sexy. And I am not gay. It all goes back to the tradition of elves being sexy or mysterious in some way in fantasy RPGs/MMOs. Several games have it… I don't hear any complaints about them, yeah, but this isn't REALLY a kid's game, because they couldn't get into it. I've never heard a ten-year-old (the foolish ESRB's rating for this is E10+) say "Oh, hey, wanna go a few rounds on Tower Defense, take a few turns?" I know a lot of ten-year olds, seeing as my elementary school teachers are my best friends (yeah really). Now, I know a few who'd like it, but they don't know what it is, of course. I'm sure if it had a T+ rating (Which, come on, now, it really should have that, when Shadow the Hedgehog [oh nostalgia] also only had an E10+ rating, foolish ESRB) there wouldn't be that much outcry. As far as Saint's Row goes, however, the game is MEANT to stir up controversy. Every SR game has been around to turn people's heads and let those who enjoy it do morally questionable things knowing that they aren't harming real people. Bad argument, sure, but I also see first and second graders talking about playing GTA. Basically, it all comes down to buyer beware, what you think about a game, that stuff. A few other examples in Dungeon Defenders, before I go, all of the characters are equal in some way as far as personality goes. Both of the arcane practitioners are nerds, the two melee tanks both lack clothes (Look at the squire, he's trouncing around in his undies. Badass. Countess has a lack of armor, but a lack of pants is worse IMO.) and the Monk classes are both well-trained spear combatants with skills in both magic and melee combat. The male / female difference is categorized by one having less health or melee damage than the other, but the Squire and Countess are mostly on par, and if there is such a difference (the Male and Female Monks and Rangers) then the physically weaker one will get increased spellcasting ability or more nimbleness. It even says in the game, the male elf is more stocky and hardy, the female is nimble, slender, and more maneuverable. And just because a class is gender-restricted doesn't mean that you can only play the males if you're a guy and the females if you're a girl. I, for one, love playing the female classes because they're amazing. It's all just your playstyle… and your stomach for things that may be considered controversial. Not trying to insult anyone here, just my 2 cents on the subject. Thanks.
"But the male ranger is also an elf.
He is also sexy"
'Sexy' and 'sexist' are two entirely different things. A character can be sexy without being sexist, and vice versa.
"And I am not gay."
That's just such a disappointing, sad thing to say.
Well, yeah, I'd get a lot of flame for saying that. Methinks guys can be sexy, but I just make sure nothing can be construed in any way.
Because trolls must die.
It is quite possible to make a female character appear sexy without giving her a skimpy outfit or strike a sexualised pose. The same is true with male characters, although usually they aren't witnessed striking poses that wouldn't be out of place in gay porn. (Not outside of Garry's Mod anyway.)
AJ's article focuses on these two instances, primarily because he wished to contrast them; in his article he actually reaches much the same conclusion about SR3 as you do in your comment above.
That said, what his article doesn't explicitly mention, but alludes to at the end, is that sexism, like most forms of institutionalised prejudice, isn't something that occurs in a vacuum. So the fact that the huntress character does this, and quite needlessly, is something which exists within the context of a creative industry that has some severe and recurrent problems with its representation of women. There are, of course, a great many contrary examples as well.
I've not played DD myself so can't comment on the rest of what you've written above, but regardless, thanks for stopping by and taking the time to comment!
@ Will – Have to agree with Shaun, as much as we politely gave oddvorbis shit in another thread an opposing opinion is always welcome (gives us something to bounce off of).
Some of the things you are talking about just sound like mechanical sexism. Make the female classes weaker but faster, 'like in real life'. One of the things I liked about Fable 2 was that the huge tank character you hang out with his a hulking tank priestess. Admitedly some might argue that it was trying to go too far in the opposite direction but I still found it entertaining and different.
I agree that you are not restricted by your own gender as to which gender you choose, but I do feel like restricting a person's outlook on a gender is a little unfair. I completely agree with you on SR3, it goes waaaay over the top so its gender portrayals become pretty irrelevant. I think I mentioned in the article that there was definitely some turmoil in me about the presentations but the other part of me was appreciating the nihilistic 'balanced' approach the game was taking towards both genders.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. But bear in mind as Michael replied below you 'Sexy' and 'Sexist' are not the same thing (or at least they don't have to be).
You seem to have a lot of knowledge on Dungeon Defenders, so clearly you are enjoying it. Hope you continue to do so, the game is pretty sweet.
AJ, we should have an argument on here at some point, just to prove that we're not an echo chamber. :D
Actually maybe we should just post one of those email threads where I try and defend corridor shooters against you and Dylan. Or repost your Half-Life 2 review, with an inevitable 1,000 word rebuttal in the comments from me. :D
We could always talk about that shitty film R.E.D. again… That always seems to end with you talking about the author of the comic buying his daughter a pony and me staring at you/your comment/your email in stony discontent.
If we did repost that Half Life 2 article (it has probably been long enough to do so) I would want to edit it and cut it down by about a 1000 words, it was rambling a little incoherent and overly wordy.
Alternatively, we could conscript a dev-talented friend to make a flash beat-em-up game in which you and I had wordfights. And all the special moves were drunkenly slurred.
Actually, let's just direct people back to the Scott Pilgrim comments thread!
Also to colour some of the commentary, worth reading this Mark Sorrel piece:
http://www.bewareofthesorrell.com/2011/12/dear-me…
Of the links he has in his article, I had read the following:
http://paxvalkyrie.tumblr.com/post/11399537687/no…
And this article on IGN is okay:
http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1213567p1.html
The subsequent comments thread is embarrassing (taken from the among the first):
"I don't see why we have feminist articles on a video game site… heck, political articles at all…"